#184: Leading with Inclusion Interview with PWDA Deputy CEO Megan Spindler-Smith

0 (15s): Yes. Hello everybody. Welcome to Crew Chat, a weekly podcast for Everything Disability Today with me Megan from People Disability Australia. Now Megan, welcome to the chat. We thanks for coming on. Now you are co CEO of Disability Australia, or people with Disability Australia. 1 (39s): Yeah, I'm the deputy. CEO 0 (41s): You. You're the deputy C. Yeah. Okay. What made you wanna work with disability? 1 (53s): Well, I am a disabled person myself. And for me it is, it feels like one of those moments where being able to do something for my own community and being able to utilize this access to privilege that this sort of role gives me is something that it's hard to say no to. Especially because we have so many things as a community of people with disability that are driving potential positive change. But there are so many barriers that's still occurring. And so for me, this has been the most important aspect of trying to work in the disability advocacy space. 1 (1m 39s): And so I've done it in a few different ways, but this is probably the most exciting one. 0 (1m 45s): Interesting. I don't know if you wanna tell people what your disabilities are or, 1 (1m 51s): Yeah, yeah. I'm happy to. So I refer to myself as a bit of a disability Pokemon because I'm attempting to catch them all. What I really mean by that is that I am neurodivergent, I am autistic, and A DHD. I also have PTSD and a thing called OSDD, which is a way that my brain deals with difficult situations. And then I also have a physical disability called Ellis Danlos Syndrome. 0 (2m 25s): That's not, it's a showcase at all. 1 (2m 29s): I, yeah, that's why I call myself a disability Pokemon 'cause I try and get all three of them. 0 (2m 34s): Okay, lovely. Yeah, 1 (2m 38s): I'm happy to kind of see what, there's some great questions that you sent through to me. 0 (2m 45s): Yeah. If you don't mind, if you don't mind, can you 1 (2m 49s): Yeah, absolutely. 0 (2m 50s): Start, you've got the questions. 1 (2m 53s): I do, I do. So one of the questions that you've asked me is around, yeah, so what is my journey in the disability advocacy space and what experiences have shaped my perspective is what's on the screen, but I can go ahead tell you about that. Absolutely. So, I mean, for me, I started out being very internally ableist before I was able to kind of work in the disability advocacy space. And it took me a long time to kind of metaphorically come out as a disabled person. 1 (3m 33s): And for me, the, the thing that started it was I was working in state government as a senior executive and I'd started to tell people about the fact that I had disability and that I was a, a person with disability. And one of my team members who is a person with disability asked me to speak at a international day for people with disability event for the whole of this government agency. And I was very nervous, but I thought, okay, let's do it. Let's try it. And so in that moment, I spoke in front of 3000 people that I work with and talk to them about being a disabled senior executive and that experience and how I had to choose to be who I was and be able to live through the barriers rather than hiding it and making it difficult. 1 (4m 29s): And afterwards, I received a whole bunch of emails from people within this government department expressing how much they appreciated hearing that there was somebody else like them in a senior role because they didn't think they'd ever be allowed to be a leader or an openly disabled person in the workplace. And so for me, that's kind of what started it all. And I was lucky enough to move over to the A, B, C and be able to work as the chair of A B, C inclusive, which was the disability network, be able to drive some really great change as part of that. 1 (5m 10s): And then was lucky enough to become an inclusion fellow with UTS as a disabled voice in that space and really driving inclusive language and inclusion of people with disability in education spaces. And from there, I got to be one of the first directing change scholars with Australian Disability Network and A ICD. And that was the first time I'd been around so many amazingly brilliant people with disability all in one spot, all wanting to make a difference and have more people with disability on board. 1 (5m 51s): So organizations had our experiences and these leaders who were doing things that I knew I wanted to be able to do more of. And so from that point, then I applied to the Disability Leadership Institute and u and became Australia's first CO CEO slash CEO intern for disability at u. And there were so many experiences just getting to bring my leadership, my knowledge, but also being able to talk about my lived experience of being a person with disability that made me realize how much it can impact small things and the opportunities to go and speak to organizations, change their mind about how inclusion looks and being able to speak up with our community. 1 (6m 44s): And that was what really has shaped who I am and, and what I've realized. I'm just lucky enough to communicate in a way that is socially acceptable and that gives me access to things. That means I have to share that platform. 0 (6m 58s): Oh God, that's, that's brilliant. That that's it. It gives other people, you can tell other people got confidence from your, your experiences and your your position. 1 (7m 10s): Absolutely. And I think that has been a huge, that moment where you realize that because you've never seen the role models, because you know what that difficulty is like thinking I can't be this person. And realizing I've just gotta be that person so that others don't have to feel that barrier. That that for me has always been a big aim and it makes me realize how lucky I really am. 0 (7m 36s): Well, we're lucky to have you on the show too. 1 (7m 39s): Thank you. So obviously I've come into this new role. I'm in week two as the deputy CEO of people with Disability Australia. Do you wanna know some of my immediate priorities in that space? 0 (7m 53s): Yes, please. 1 (7m 54s): So obviously one of the big things immediately for me is about the NDIS amendment. As you know, it has recently gone back to committee and we have a real opportunity to listen to our members and our board to ensure that we're really advocating for what should happen with this NDIS amendment. Because right now it's just not meeting our members' needs. And that is why we need to keep supporting change. So that's one of my big kind of moments that I'm dealing with now. But also being able to understand what people want and what our members want and what people with disability want to see in the future. 1 (8m 43s): And so to do that, I need to be able to support our board, build as many networks as possible, and absolutely demonstrate that value that disabled voices bring to our lives. Because I don't think we always get to be the people that speak about what we need every single day. So that's kind of my immediate priorities. 0 (9m 5s): That sounds, that sounds challenging, but hopefully we can get there. 1 (9m 10s): Yeah. Look, I love a good challenge. I'm all for a big challenge. 0 (9m 13s): Alright. Challenge if you got a disability, that's a challenge in itself. 1 (9m 18s): Exactly. Exactly. Which is like a double bonus challenge. 0 (9m 22s): Exactly. I'm always up for a challenge too. Good. 1 (9m 28s): Good. Well, I, I know that at PWDA, we don't see challenge as a negative thing. And I think it's one of those things where, as part of that, as part of our long-term vision for what I can do to help achieve that is really about ensuring that our board and our members are represented in a way and supported to do the amazing work that they're already doing. And I think in the long run, our long-term vision is set by our board who are elected and represent our members. 1 (10m 9s): And as part of that sort of strategic plan of how do we make sure that we are the leading cross disability rights representative organization, how do we make sure that I respect and uphold the needs of our members? Because in the long run, being in this role is not about getting to do all of the Megan things that Megan wants. It's about what does our community need. And I recognize that my voice is just one that happens to have access to share that with others. And because we are so board driven, which is amazing because we have this brilliant board of people who are able to ensure that the aspirations of the disability community are really being open. 1 (10m 56s): And, and you see it in the way they talk about the importance of what we are doing and the importance behind the strategic plan that they're driving for us. And because of that, it's really set us up to that point where we can continue being that cross disability member driven organization where we can ensure that we're actually re presenting the diversity of our community. Because a lot of people don't always realize that people with disability are not a monolith. We are absolutely one of the most diverse communities and we don't always have the exact same needs all the time. And that is absolutely exactly how it should be. 0 (11m 40s): Exactly. Exactly. We, we are all different in different ways. And not all you saying absolutely no. And without all and without all fit in the checklist. 1 (11m 48s): No. No, we don't. We don't. And I think that's the thing is that, you know, you and I know we all know that as people with disability, what I need, regardless of what my, you know, collective diagnoses are, what I need is not gonna be the same as any other person. There's gonna be some similarities and we're gonna have links, but what I need and what you need are not gonna be the same. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't support and work together and ensure that we are an intersectional community because that's what actually makes us better. 0 (12m 25s): It's like, like a football team. Not everyone, we we're not all, we're all on the same team, but we all got different positions. 1 (12m 32s): Exactly. I'm the person making the sliced oranges and filling up the water tank because if you put me on the field, I will probably fall over. So I would suggest that is not who should put me in the team. I'm just saying I'm a good coach. I can get people going. 0 (12m 53s): You go, I'll be, I'll be i'll, I'll be the, I'll be the, the actual, I don't know, I'll be the forward, but I wouldn't know if I'll be going forward. 1 (13m 2s): Well just keep yelling. I'll be the person on the sidelines yelling. How does that sound? 0 (13m 7s): Yeah, you can gimme direction 1 (13m 12s): And like that is the point. This is about us. It's about us ensuring that we are creating that education and that change and respecting the importance of what the board does to represent our members and our people with disability. And in the future, we've gotta be able to make sure we keep strengthening that advocacy efforts because that needs to be supported and funded. And having that independent advocacy is so important. And being able to work with international organizations and talk about the global issues around disability rights and how do we innovate education, how do we drive that societal change so that we actually do have inclusion. 1 (13m 58s): So ableism is not a dirty word, it's an important word that we're able to bring forward and say, Hey, that was enable a situation. How do we fix it? How do we make it better? And ensuring that we can keep creating programs like our women in leadership programs for women with disability that are being able to actually change this idea that people with disability can't be leaders. Because of course we can, regardless of what people expect a leader to look like. 0 (14m 33s): But I believe when they, when when people accept their disability and accept people that have disability are leaders, that's when we could move forward. 1 (14m 46s): You're so right. It's, I have been in so many organizations where I have been the only openly disabled person and 0 (14m 56s): A lot, a lot of people, a lot of people like to hide it. 1 (14m 59s): Yeah. And I understand why, because there is a lack of safety, a lack of feeling that we can bring our whole selves to the table because you don't know if you're going to be underestimated. And I know for me that underestimation still happens to this day. And that is a really difficult part. And I think, you know, that underestimation, one of your questions was, what is it that's actually one of the biggest challenges that are facing people with disabilities in Australia today. And that underestimation, the ableism is a huge challenge for us as people with disability. 1 (15m 41s): It drives that non-inclusive, non-accessible society. That means that we're being limited by how others perceive our capability and capacity. It means that we're not necessarily getting access to equity of education, health, and employment because it's not set up for how we need to interact in the world. And that is kind of an encompassment of everything that is a challenge. And I can talk about the little things, but all of the, I mean, none of them are really little, but all of those things are because we need to be understood as being equal and have equity within society. 0 (16m 23s): Yes. I I believe so. Yeah. They've gotta understand people with disability are still humans and they can still function. 1 (16m 35s): Absolutely. And I think we can do so much more than, it's not about being inspiration. We don't need to be inspiration. We just need to be allowed to be all of ourselves. And that means not being perfect all the time. 0 (16m 55s): Exactly. Well, no one is perfect all the time. 1 (16m 58s): No, I'd be bored if I was perfect all the time. Yeah. So 0 (17m 5s): It wouldn't be boring. 1 (17m 7s): It would be, I think the role that I'm now lucky enough to have at people with disability allows me to kind of address some of these challenges that we are dealing with by actually first of all listening to and understanding what it is our members and our board need and want and expect so that I can ensure that I'm representing that in the right way, but not just the right way. In a way that means that I don't have to be the only person and the only voice because we should be at the table. 1 (17m 56s): And so as part of that, it's about understanding how we represent the community and how they put their heart and time into these things and ensuring that we always have a voice at the table every time that we do what we do. And this is what I mean, it's, you need to have us considered by government and the decision makers and allowing space, especially for those of us that don't have access to communication in the way that I'm lucky enough to have it. I think we underestimate people because they don't communicate in a way that does, isn't seen as the standard societal expectation. 1 (18m 41s): And that is ridiculous because some of the people who have really changed my mind about life are those that don't have access to communication in the same way I do. 0 (18m 53s): Some people have not, haven't got the same access as communication, but that also also plays a domino effect where they haven't got access to communication, then they haven't got access to education. 1 (19m 10s): Yes. And 0 (19m 14s): And what do you feel about that? 1 (19m 16s): I think that that lack of access to education in a way that is effective for us is the reason that so many people with disability are not given an opportunity to have the career I've been lucky enough to have and the opportunities and choices. Now I know that I wouldn't have had those if I wasn't able to do things in a way that takes a lot of energy. Don't get me wrong. I think that our education system needs to understand that the inclusion of people with disability makes us better as an education. 1 (20m 0s): Being able to learn with everyone else, our non-disabled compatriots is just as important because we know that that learning from each other and finding different ways to work together is what actually makes us future leaders. It's what makes us better at everything we do. And it makes us innovative. 0 (20m 27s): Yes. I I believe so. I believe so. But also do I I I learned stigma. Like a lot of cultures, they like to hide their disa disabled children. 1 (20m 46s): And we shouldn't have that culture here in Australia because we have access to so much staff that allows us the space. But we need to ensure that it's accessible and inclusive of people with disabilities and understand how to do that in a culturally safe way for everyone. Because I am a white person and it means that I've had access to choice that others who are from different cultural or socioeconomic backgrounds haven't had. 1 (21m 28s): And then you add in being a person with disability where it's not necessarily easily accepted is so much harder. And we are not set up to ensure that safety and space and the value that that brings to our community. And it really is an education piece. 0 (21m 48s): I, I think, I think, I think people, if they go in the normal stream, the normal stream schools, other people learn from there. 1 (21m 59s): Oh, absolutely. You're absolutely right. 0 (22m 2s): And they accept it and kids learn and they know how to identify people with disability Yes. And how to work around them Yeah. And work with them. 1 (22m 16s): Yeah. And it's, it's not an othering, it's just Okay, that's part, that's my friend over there. That's my friend over there. That's, you know, for me it's, that's my friend over there that's autistic. I think it's one of those things where if we don't ensure that our children have access to all different people with disability, then how are we gonna ensure that we have a more inclusive and engaged society? 0 (22m 53s): That's a, that's a very good question. So we need, we, we need acceptance. 1 (23m 1s): We do. And one of the questions you asked me or that you wanted to ask me was around the impact, telling a story of a time that I saw the impact of effective advocacy and inclusion on the lives of people with disabilities. And it, it's funny, I was thinking about this today and thinking about is there like something really big or something really small I want to talk about? And I think probably the first was, and it's a big one, was having audio description added to a BCI view that was driven by people with disabilities at the A, B, C and the demonstration of nothing about us without us. 1 (23m 53s): And the value that that brought to ensure that everyone can have access to media and to news and to information. And that is huge. That was a, a massive thing where we advocating for our community changed and helped drive innovation when it comes to the media industry. I mean, that's pretty exciting and that's huge. But I think a small time was the first time I ever sat at a board meeting when I was the co CEO intern at U and there were four of us people with disability at the table, and we were discussing something that was inherently linked to our lived experience. 1 (24m 55s): And I remember that the four of us didn't agree. And it was a moment where we were on different viewpoints around what we were going to do in this space. What I found, what was amazing was that the non-disabled board members at the table were listening and watching, but we had the floor and we made the decision and they supported it. And the impact it had on them in the long run changed how they wanted to work as a board, 0 (25m 34s): How they viewed people with disability. I reckon 1 (25m 38s): Absolutely. That moment where the four of us didn't agree was the happiest moment ever. I remember coming away from it and crying joy because I was like, yeah, this is what it's about. This is exactly right. 0 (25m 56s): It it, it, it shows that you are all, you, you are all different and you are all important. 1 (26m 3s): Exactly. Exactly. 0 (26m 5s): So everyone needs their needs. Their need, their needs met different to others. 1 (26m 13s): Yes. Yes. Exactly. How does people with disability empower people with Disability Australia empower individuals with disabilities to advocate for themselves in their communities. One of the biggest things that we ensure is that we are disa disability led. We're a disabled people's organization. We have elected board members who are all people with disability. And we are always trying to make sure that we are providing the tools and the information in an accessible way to not just our members, so that they know what they need and are able to share that information in a way that's right for them, but also so that they can share those ideas and concepts and what they want for us to support them with through our board. 1 (27m 17s): And therefore we're able to sit in communities and support and ensure that the disabled voice is absolutely the most imperative one when it comes to our experiences and our needs in society. And that, that is what is so important to us. Plus we provide education programs not just to people with disability, but actually it's about educating and advocating for a more inclusive society that supports and respects people with disability. And how do we create a more disability affirming society? 0 (28m 3s): Others need to learn about disability and know how to live with it. 1 (28m 10s): Absolutely. 0 (28m 10s): Yeah. Challenges. Yes. So if they see others and every person without disability, they learn that each disability is different and, and each disability needs something different to help others. 1 (28m 29s): Absolutely. And sometimes when we are people with more than one disability, how they interact with each other and how do we actually ensure that all parts of our community represented. And I think this is, you know, where it's so important when you're asking about how important is collaboration with other disability organizations and stakeholders to people with disability Australia's mission. It's the key. It's the absolutely important aspect because there is no one size that fits all and need to partner with other groups to ensure that we are learning and supporting not just one set of group. 1 (29m 22s): Now we have a huge membership and we've got some amazing people that are sharing their voices. But one of the things that's really important for us is how are we making sure that we're partnering with the First People's Disability Network and ensuring that a First Nations perspective on disability is being shared. How are we ensuring that the ethnic disability group is being represented? Well, the only way to do that is to partner with these organizations. Same with Inclusion Australia, because they are doing a fantastic and amazing job around ensuring inclusion for people with intellectual disabilities. And it is an area where we want to support and ensure that that happens because it, it is something that impacts our board and our members. 1 (30m 11s): It's something that impacts us on a day-to-day basis. And so if we don't collaborate with other disability organizations, then we are not going to understand the needs of our whole community. But we're also not gonna be able to share and demonstrate the nuances of the uniqueness within our community. 0 (30m 36s): Well, yeah, I I I agree to that. I agree that we should learn about everyone else and accept others and absolutely know what their, what, what, what different groups with what different groups of views about disability and what they need. 1 (30m 59s): Yes, absolutely. And that is such an important thing to recognize and especially when, you know, you're talking about that collaborative effort is actually going to be able to create significant and positive change for people with disability. And I think it is around ensuring that at the center of everything we do, it's, it's about how do we ensure that Disability Royal Commission and the NDIS review are actually helping us to understand what are some of those new programs and initiatives that the people with Disability Australia's board and members are driving this collaborative approach ensures that our initiatives are well aligned to the needs of our community. 1 (31m 59s): So being able to do things that ensure that we can have that substantial impact and bring about that transformative change is part of how we do this every day. And even just the simple act of having people with disability at the table was a collaborative effort to get to that point. And so that is something that we see and it makes me excited for the future of what we can be doing and how do we continue to enhance some of those mentoring programs that we run for, you know, sustainable leadership for women with disability. 1 (32m 43s): How do we make sure that there's career and confidence progression? How do we make sure that there are educational programs for employer organizations that educate a disability affirming or confident workforce? And those are the things that can bring that together. But it can only be done because we are making a collaborative effort with not just our membership, but our board as well as other disabled people's organizations 0 (33m 11s): And, and all that, all that all the, you could say comes to education. 1 (33m 21s): Yes, absolutely. 0 (33m 24s): Educating everyone around us and, and the, the center of our board. 1 (33m 31s): Absolutely. And, and the thing is, is that it's so important as part of this process that we have access to individual advocacy services, but one of the biggest issues we are currently facing, and that's going to impact the future, is the current gutting of funding for individual advocacy services. And we are really proud to provide that independent and disability led individual advocacy services across New South Wales and Queensland. And we provide a really important national information and referral service. 1 (34m 11s): But, but we need for these services to be fully funded and for the funding to be long term so that people with disability can have the support that they need for individual advocacy, but also allows us to ensure that we are continuing that education and representing the needs that we need from an education, an employment perspective, a health perspective, and all of those things. 0 (34m 43s): Okay. I guess we, we need, we need, we need reassurance. 1 (34m 51s): Yes. Yeah. 0 (34m 54s): And hopefully we can get that through the NDI and 1 (35m 1s): Yes, absolutely. And I think it's one of those things where if we are at the table and ensuring that all of our needs are being met, then there's always the possibility that we are able to drive positive change. But we need to see how that is going to impact all of us. And, and we wanna see how these amendments are going to keep moving forward in a positive way. 0 (35m 30s): Hopefully it all goes well. Yes. 1 (35m 37s): Probably, probably one of my favorite questions that you've asked me is around what does inclusive leadership mean to me and how do I personally plan to implement it within people with Disability Australia? And I've gotta say inclusive leadership is a beyond passion for me. I was lucky enough to do a Master's in leadership and as part of it, inclusive leadership was something that I walked away with going, we need more of this. And what I mean by that is, inclusive leadership means that we lead in the way that is right for us as individuals that supports an organization to change and grow. 1 (36m 22s): And for people to feel psychologically safe to be who they choose to be at work and be openly a person with disability, being openly a person with lived experience of marginalization. And for me, it's about showing that it's okay to bring yourself to work, whatever that means. And I know that I made a decision quite a few years ago that I would be all of me, and that meant being openly queer, being openly disabled at work and showing others the empathy that allows them the space to do the work that they're already good at. 1 (37m 12s): But they just might need different ways of doing it. And so that's what inclusive leadership means to me, is that it's that there is not one size fits, fits all. And my job as a leader is to flex to my team or to my organization and not for them to flex. To me, that is what I'm implementing. That's how I'm trying to drive change initially with my, my initial team and then wider. It's how do we ensure that everyone feels safe to show up and be themselves in the workplace? 0 (37m 49s): So don't be afraid to, to to be yourself and, and, and others should accept you how you are. 1 (37m 58s): Exactly. And also, let's rethink what the word leadership actually means, because I think we have a very strong understanding of what leadership should look like. And I don't think I defin, I don't think I meet that old definition, and I don't think the people who are actually leading and making change in society meet that old definition. And so let's find ways to change the meaning around that. 0 (38m 32s): Well, you could say it later, but, but, but being an example by doing things others see as, okay, if she can do it, I can do it too. 1 (38m 47s): Exactly. And it's, it's one of the things that, you know, you asked how can other organizations learn from PDA's approach to intersectional inclusivity and accessibility in leadership. I think the first thing is, is hire us. Hire us to do the work because we can. And don't underestimate our capacity and our ability. Make sure we have the workplace adjustments that we need. Make sure we can have choice in how we work, because that's how you're gonna get the good juice from us. 1 (39m 31s): That's a terrible certain sentence. I've just made us all fruit, but 0 (39m 36s): The, the, the best, the best Well usage of us. 1 (39m 42s): Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And making that the space where we have some autonomy that is what is important to the approach that we are taking is it's how do we make sure that people's full lives are not just respected but are valued and important part of what they bring to work. Because we've all got skills and knowledge, it's just sometimes we need to show them or demonstrate them in a way that doesn't happen without supports. 0 (40m 28s): Well, a lot of people think people with disability don't have capability of doing a lot of things, but they've gotta realize we have a lot of capability. We, we are very capable of doing things, but we might need a bit of guidance. Yes. 1 (40m 47s): Yeah. But that doesn't, yeah, that doesn't make us bad at things. 0 (40m 52s): Exactly. Or we might, might be overlooked here and there, but you, you gotta, you gotta understand we do have talent most, a lot, a lot of people that have disability, I don't know, make other people freak out of what they can do. 1 (41m 11s): Absolutely. I also think we should have the right just to live an ordinary life. And that ordinary can be whatever we choose it to be. We don't always have to be excelling at everything. And don't get me wrong, I'm not good at listening to myself, but because I, I definitely expect myself to be perfect and I can't do perfection. But we, we should be allowed to just have ordinary, everyday lives to still be seen as valuable and bringing something important to the table. 0 (41m 52s): What's other people, Steve one, when people see that we can do things, didn't they start going, okay, if you can do, if they can do that. Yeah. And do, can they do this? 1 (42m 4s): Exactly 0 (42m 5s): Instead of instead of hiding, not not expecting us to know how to do that. Just start asking. 1 (42m 15s): Yeah. And it really does kind of go towards some of the key policy initiatives that our board is ensuring that we are focusing on, and those are ensuring that we have accessible and effective opportunities when it comes to housing, when it comes to employment. But it's more than just let's all get jobs. It's about let's have careers and choices and progression in the way that we choose. Let's do things that make us passionate. 1 (42m 56s): It's about making sure that we have a fair and inclusive NDIS process and NDIS for all of us. It's about making sure that we are having access to health and medical opportunities in a way that is timely and viable for us. It is about making sure that we have access to education that is the same and equitable as everyone else, and ensuring that we have that equity of access to health and employment and education, but also ensuring that when it comes to our lived experience as people, we get to be all of ourselves. 1 (43m 57s): And I think one of the exciting things is that people with disability has just been recently funded to represent and advocate with the LGBTQIA plus community for lgbtqia plus people with disabilities. And for me, as a member of these communities, as a member of both, it's this level of pride that I get to be part of that and be able to support our membership and our board in expanding advocacy for these interlinked communities. 0 (44m 40s): I guess. I guess it's an achievement. 1 (44m 43s): Yes, absolutely. It's exciting. I get to be, I get to create some positive space and you think about how, 0 (44m 55s): So you, you can say you love your job and that's the, that's that's, that's that's that's the aim in life. Yes. If it's a, if it's a job that you love, it's not a job 1 (45m 6s): Exactly. The 0 (45m 7s): Way of life, I reckon. 1 (45m 9s): It is. It is. It does. You wake up up 0 (45m 13s): The next Yeah. You wake up, you wake up the next day happy to go to work. 1 (45m 18s): Yeah. Yes, yes. Exactly. Though I will say that as much as I love my job, I do love my wife more and I need to say that so I don't get any trouble. Okay. 0 (45m 33s): That's alright. Yeah. 1 (45m 36s): So how can your listeners get involved and support these advocacy efforts? Well, I mean, first of all, share your stories with us. Become a member of people with Disability Australia so we can work with you and support you and listen to what you need, but also share your lived experience because it will make a difference. And hearing your stories and hearing the good and the not so good stuff makes a difference because our stories are important and 0 (46m 16s): Yeah, you can say our stories. Our stories, we can learn from it. 1 (46m 20s): Absolutely. That's why I love group chat because you get to hear these stories that you don't hear in other spaces all the time. 0 (46m 33s): People don't hide behind things. Yeah, 1 (46m 38s): No, no. 0 (46m 39s): We'd like to, we'd like to give the the story. 1 (46m 45s): Yes, absolutely. 0 (46m 48s): Without, without hiding. 1 (46m 51s): So there's a question here around systemic issues within the disability sector that need urgent attention. 0 (46m 59s): Okay. 1 (47m 0s): I feel like it's so clear that we have systemic issues around inclusion within education, inclusion within employment, ensuring that we have access to mainstream or open employment depending on how you wanna talk about it. How we are making sure that we are having the choice in control and that needs urgent attention to ensure that we have access to be able to have choice and control, but also making sure that we are not defunding these important advocacy work that needs to keep happening and needs to keep driving the positive change we're already starting to see. 1 (47m 52s): And so that is a huge systemic issue that we're facing. And then it's also really important that we are able to see a positive impact from the changes to the NDIS and that come out of the recommendations of the DRC and those things will make sure that we can advocate for and drive change within society overall. 0 (48m 24s): So yeah, so how, how are we gonna overlook them? 1 (48m 30s): I think it's one of those situations that we need to have access to the information and recognize the importance of the human rights model of disability so that we're able to really address these issues and being able to create partnerships with all parts of the government, with education providers, with employment providers, with big organizations, with small medium organizations. 1 (49m 11s): And so for me it's really important that we create a partnership and give space for education and learning so that we can find a way forward that is enabling people with disability to share within this society in a way that we don't always get to. And so for me it's about partnership, it's about ensuring that I understand where everyone's coming from so that we can drive that change and be able to not always be the one speaking up. 1 (49m 53s): I think is gonna be a big part 0 (49m 56s): Is wouldn't it be easier if every company that we just just got listed has a disability board in there also? 1 (50m 7s): Oh, it'd be amazing being able to have an employee network or a board or, you know, a lived experience within every especially large organization. The impact it could have on the overarching access within society would be huge. 0 (50m 26s): I think so. 1 (50m 27s): Yeah, I agree. So I know we're at that point, but I guess one of the big things in that future plans and innovations, I've already talked a little bit about some of these things and the excitement around the ability for us to represent and advocate with the LGBTQIA plus people with disability. But I guess one of the big things is our advancing women pilot, which is making significant steps in leadership representation within the workplace for women non-binary and feminine identifying people with disabilities. 1 (51m 9s): And it's a pilot that has actually been directed by and for women with disability through an educational program, a mentoring program. And it's demonstrating the importance of us driving change for ourselves. And I think it's, it's one of those spaces where we've got some brilliant work happening in this area. We're also looking at how do we understand the way we can shape our responses to the Disability Royal Commission and the NDIS through the leadership of our board and our members. 1 (51m 55s): And probably the kind of last most important thing is that, you know, I'm, I'm literally day 10 in this gig, so it's only 10 days in. And so I'm relatively new, but I'm still seeing so many exciting programs and initiatives that will make it, it sounds like you're on Cloud nine. Oh yeah, absolutely. It's, it's a very exciting opportunity and I feel very lucky to be in this position. Very fortunate. Yeah. So there's a, yeah, there was a question about innovating and keeping people with disability at the 400 disability advocacy. 1 (52m 40s): And I think probably the simplest way to answer that is changing how we share the knowledge from our wider community, the knowledge from our board, the knowledge from the rest of our membership because there are so many ways that we can do that. And how do we work with all of the different technology and tools that are available and provide information in a way that people can choose how they engage with things, how they engage with disability advocacy within Australia, and how do we partner with other organizations to do that. 1 (53m 26s): And so for me, that's one of the big pieces that I like to see because we have such great knowledge and ability to share this, there are just so many different ways we could do it to make it as flexible and self-driven as people want to choose to 0 (53m 49s): Make it more accessible and more capable for others to, to to, to actually go for, to to use things. 1 (54m 6s): Absolutely. And, 0 (54m 7s): And be accepted. 1 (54m 9s): Yeah. And do things in the way that's right. For you. 0 (54m 13s): What are the, is there any other questions that stood, stood out for you? 1 (54m 19s): No, I think that's it. I think really I just wanna encourage and your listeners to support and engage with what we're doing at pe people with Disability Australia. And 0 (54m 33s): I, I would, I would like to tell, please write in the comments please like, and share and if you've got anything to write in the comments or any questions, please do. 1 (54m 46s): I absolutely agree. I think that's fantastic and I think recognize the importance of conversations like this because the conversations that Crip chat have help us look at our community and our world in so many different ways. And I really appreciate that. 0 (55m 6s): What would your conclusion be, or 1 (55m 10s): My conclusion would be is as people with disability, our ability to be strong leaders and advocates in advancing the rights of people with disability is something every single one of us can do. And putting, creating space for us at the table is so important and using our voices in whatever way that looks like will make a difference for our community now and in the future. 0 (55m 46s): And if someone wants to contact your society, the, the way you work or what whatever, use your services Yes. How, how do they go on doing that? 1 (56m 6s): Absolutely. So we have a really great and accessible website where you can go to, which is pwd.org au. And so you can get some great information on that. You can even give us a call on one eight hundred four two two oh one five. I did not memorize that. I am reading that. And you can contact us in multiple ways. So you can put a general inquiry on our website. You can give us a call, you can email us@pwdatpwd.org au 0 (56m 50s): And what can you assist them with? 1 (56m 52s): We can assist you with advocacy, we can get your engagement with different projects. We can help you to promote human rights, equity, and dignity for all people with disability. And we're also able to really provide activities through forums and surveys and board advisory groups and also give you the support you need when you need it, when it comes to individual advocacy. 0 (57m 32s): Well, my conclusion is well, if you need help, ask for it. Yeah. If you can do something, show 'em. Don't be shy. Once you accept that you've got disability and you should, and, and you're not hiding it, people won't hide from you and they'll understand that your disability is not weed or not, it's, it's acceptable and you can do things Absolutely. Just like the rest of them. 1 (58m 11s): Absolutely. It's just a different kind of brilliance. 0 (58m 15s): Exactly. We've all been played different cards. 1 (58m 21s): Absolutely. 0 (58m 23s): We've all got different handle cards and each one, each, each card, each, each person plays the, the game differently. 1 (58m 32s): Absolutely. Thank you. 0 (58m 34s): So you've been, you've been speaking to, you've been talking to the Emma, sorry, you've been watching Group Chat, your weekly podcast for everything. Disability, please like and share and we'll say bye for now. Thank you. Tune in next. Next time.